Moritz ‘mo’ Sauer is one of the responsibles behind phlow, the most popular magazine about netaudio and netlabelism. He was giving a workshop in netAudio Barcelona 2008 and we used this chance to interview him. Here is the result. We hope you find some interesting information on it.

netaudio.es: Let’s start talking about the Phlow-Magazine.com. When did you start this project?

mo: I started Phlow-Magazine.com a little bit more than one year ago – to be precise on 21st of september in 2007. The idea resulted from the feedback I got for the German version under Phlow.net where I reviewed netlabel music in german. A lot of foreign musicians translated the German reviews with Google or asked for a translation. So I thought, why not start an international version for a bigger audience. And fortunately Sven Swift teamed up to help me. Since the beginning he is – together with me – the driving force behind the music magazine.

netaudio.es: What kind of relationship do you have with artists and netlabels who appear in phlow? Do you surf through netlabels and review your preffered releases or do netlabels send you their music for reviewing?

mo: Both ways happen. There are a lot of netlabels asking us via contact form to listen to their music. But as every music lover we have some preferences not only in taste but also in netlabels. Sven Swift likes for example experimental netlabels like Zymogen, Resting Bell or Serein. I like music released by netlabels with a warm and soulful sound. One of my favorite artists are for example Comfort Fit (Tokyo Dawn), disrupt (Jahtari), Sudio (Ideology), Paul Keeley (Epsilonlab/Thinner) or Suhov (Budabeats), just to name a view. There are a lot netlabels I like very much and lend my ear for every new release.

netaudio.es: Do you have any promotion service for artists and netlabels? Have you thought about it?

mo: I am thinking about this for a long time now. I do quite a lot workshops on conferences like netaudio barcelona 2008, c/o pop, mica, Rockhal and so on to help artists to raise attention for their work. Currently I am working on a concept and website which might help even more. But it is still in an early stage.

Moritz 'mo' Sauer djing in netAudio Barcelona 2008

netaudio.es: You have written books and workshops about online selfmarketing for bands and musicians. What do you think is the key for reaching to the mainstream people and not only for digital nerds? Do you believe that there is any chance to reaching the global market of end users who like listening to music without a big (and expensive) marketing campaign? Is it possible just with internet and good manners?

mo: Everything is possible of course. But in my view only publishing music on the internet is definetely not enough. The web is a perfect tool for promotion. It’s like a shopping window where you present yourself and get in touch with people. If you want to make a living as a musician you have to create something unique. Something people will remember, something people want to experience again. Digital goods, like mp3 are nothing special because the copy is always the original. Digital data is easy to copy, so think about something special to give to the people. There is no “key” for the mainstream. Focus on what you are good at. If you love experimental music, than make it really special. If you like pop music, than compose incredible music people want to live with.

netaudio.es: Related to this… what do you think is the most important part of an online promotion of a band? What is your suggestion for a new band who wants to selfpublish and promote themselves on internet?

mo: The starting point should be a headquarter where you are the boss. Because if you are the boss, you can do everything. If MySpace is your boss, they can turn of your website, if they want to. Build everything around your own website but publish, promote and spread the word on important communities, boards, magazines, internet radio or blogs.

mo. together with Sven Swift (12rec.net Netlabel) and Filippo Aldovini (Zymogen Netlabel)

netaudio.es: Let’s go for the question everybody asks when we talk about netaudio…. Can you make money from online music? How I can get paid if I give my music for free? Tell us the first idea that comes to your mind

mo: You can earn money with creative commons music and it’s not that difficult. Licencing your music to agencies, companies, movie makers or computer games is a good choice. The difficult thing is to get in contact. But these markets are huge but aren’t aware of netaudio right now.

netaudio.es: Talking about online music and money… one of the main points of the free culture was to remove mediators and have a direct contact between artists and listeners/clubs/programmers, but online promotion is being every day more difficult and competitive, new mediators appear, in order to aggregate music, promote, manage music on internet, etc. Do you think we have removed mediators with online music or just changed their tasks?

mo: No, there will always be mediators, because “normal” people need some kind of orientation. The common listener is lazy. He wants to get introduced to something. That’s why he reads blogs, contacts friends on communities or consumes the media in general. What’s new is, that common people get more and more used to choose for themselves. But there will be always be hypes. The main difference is, that a fan can contact artists, producers and bands more directly via internet. While in “the old days” not long ago, there were only few mediators to guide people, we have now mediators like bloggers, podcasters, communities or aggregators. The challenge is to find out where your “customers” – potential fans – are. Ask yourself where to find them in the digital age? Are they on facebook? Do they enjoy discussions on boards? Or do the pay attention to a blogger in a niche? You have to go, where the people are.

mo giving a workshop in netAudio Barcelona 2008

netaudio.es: One of the most important sites for online music and selfmarketing is myspace.com. The idea is great but the execution and implementation is a big mess. Everybody knows and agree with it. Do you think that the post-myspace age is near? Do you believe in a 2.0 platform able to replace the current MySpace success?

mo: MySpace is a mess according to design and usability. But MySpace is good for getting in touch with artists and labels and people in general. This year I was asked to coordinate creative commons music for a design conference. The organisers had not much time left, but I managed to clear the rights to play music by six different artists from mexico, italy, russia, chile and germany in one weekend. Through the contact-function of MySpace. The main important feature from MySpace is the messaging system and the fact, that really nearly everybody has a MySpace websites, he uses. That’s a hard fact to beat by another platform. I think a lot of people use more and more facebook because it’s design and flexibility is extraordinary. But it has not this musical touch like MySpace. Do answer your question short. I don’t think that there will be a more sophisticated music platform in the near future.

netaudio.es: You have been involved in some events about netaudio around Europe. What kind of evolution have they had from the beginning and what do you think is the main profit an artist can get from them?

mo: The first netaudio parties I participated as a dj or journalist where visited quite poorly. But in the meantime there have been some parties like the Netaudio Parties in Berlin called Netlabel which were really professional. Also the first netaudio party in Cologne together with the Evoke demoscene party was a big success. Netlabels still exist in a niche. Netaudio London 2008 was big but the organisators missed to teach the people somewhow, that it was a festival for free music. I think there is still a lot of improvement to spread the message about free music and this kind of gift economy and the profits of it. If everything works out properly, maybe we’ll make a Netaudio Cologne. Than we will try to combine workshops for musicians and a party to spread the idea. One important goal will be to answer the question: “How can I make money with creative commons music?”.

mo. djing together with Sven Swift

netaudio.es: And last one… tell us some of the most interesting sites, netlabels or resources about netaudio and online promotion you have recently found on the net.

mo: There is one website run by two german guys called Phlow-Magazine.com, it’s…. No, to be serious: There are so many places and sources I like. I don’t want to pick some out of a whole universe of excellent websites, music sites and so on. Right now, there are two software tools I really enjoy: Sproutbuilder.com, a widget-construction-service and WordPress, the weblog system with a incredible community of designers, programmers and fans behind it.

netaudio.es: Thanks mo! Great to talk to you again!

mo: Thank you for letting me sharing my thoughts and ideas with you, Critic and feedback is highly welcomed! Greets from Germany, mo.!